INI website uses locale-specific times

[sebbASF]

The INI website uses locale-specific times for meetings etc.

It would be more inclusive to use UTC throughout in case there are people who live far from the locale who would like to participate. Readers should not have to look up what Pacific Time means to them.

[markcmiller86]

Hmmm...changing from looking up or otherwise converting from Pacific time to looking up or converting from UTC time seems to accomplish little except that UTC has the word Universal in the name. Maybe thats the point?

I think as long as all posted times a) clearly indicate the time zone in which they are specified and b) use that time zone consistently throughout our logistics artifacts, that is the best we can do.

As an aside, it could be worth adding a clock to the INI web site pages (kinda like I did in upper-right corner on this site) that is guaranteed to show the correct/current time (in the INI adopted zone -- which appears to be leaning heavily towards PDT) regardless of where in the world the browser is actually running.

[markcmiller86]

I suppose another option is to post all times in both PDT and UTC.

[sebbASF]

Sorry, but I think you have completely missed the point.

Pacific Time does not mean anything to most people in the world, nor probably to most in the English-speaking world outside North America.

People who are aware that there are different timezones around the world will almost certainly know what their UTC-offset is.
It's very unlikely that they will know what the PT offset is, nor when DST is in force.

I realise that this is not deliberate, but using it gives the impression that this initiative is only for those for whom Pacific Time is familiar.

I suggest:

All times should have a TZ indicator, and should be posted in UTC as a minimum.
If you wish to post times additionally in another TZ, why just PDT? That is exclusionary.
Why not post in the user's Locale?

[richsalz]

As long as UTC is present, I have a hard time seeing it being exclusionary. I have a hard time seeing the use of that term in this PR as anything other than diversionary.

[sebbASF]

I think you are still missing the point.

Why are local times only shown in the PT locale?
Is the initiative only intended for people in that area?
If not, why are times shown in that TZ for everyone?

How would you feel if all times were in NZST (for example)?

[markcmiller86]

How would you feel if all times were in NZST (for example)?

Like I'd need to do a little googling to learn how ot convert NZST (posted times) to PDT (my local time zone).

[sebbASF]

The question still remains: why is Pacific Time treated differently from all other TZ?
What is special about that TZ?

What does it mean for me if I am in a different TZ?

Please try to see this from the point of view of someone whose timezone is different from yours.

[richsalz]

UTC is a different timezone from mine. I'm in EST/EDT and I never once asked for them to be changed. Mail programs are pretty good these days. :)

Beyond that, my comment above still stands for m3e.

[JasnaMRB]

People who are aware that there are different timezones around the world will almost certainly know what their UTC-offset is.

✋🏽 I'm a software developer who has dealt with the timezone problem many times, yet I still haven't memorized my UTC-offset. I hate to think that's a failing on my part, but rather that I'm used to having websites automatically convert timezones for me or just googling when I need to do a conversion.

I would propose having a programmatic way for the website to derive a user's local timezone and show that, while also putting the UTC time in parentheses as a fallback.

[markcmiller86]

I would propose having a programmatic way for the website to derive a user's local timezone and show that, while also putting the UTC time in parentheses as a fallback.

While I think that is relatively easy to do. I think I do something similar here which displays the time in Chicago (the TZ in which a virtual event was being managed) regardless (hopefully) of where the browser is actually executing in the world.

The challenge, however, is that one will not stumble into posted dates/times from INI only through a web browser on an INI web page. I think they get copied, re-posted, etc. in a number of different places for which have a smart web page will have no effect.

And, like you, I don't know my UTC offset either. And, even if I did, I wouldn't know it when I was on travel outside my home TZ either. I know my height in feet and inches and weight in pounds too. I don't know them in meters and kilograms. I have to convert 😉

[sebbASF]

No-one has answered my question: why are times quoted in Pacific Time?

[edwarnicke]

Is this the web page you are concerned about: https://inclusivenaming.org/calendar/ ? Ed

…

On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 2:09 PM sebbASF ***@***.***> wrote: No-one has answered my question: why are times quoted in Pacific Time? — You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#77 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AALDI2BDRPDELWFFD33DNJDUB6MU7ANCNFSM5DMUWZKQ> .

[sebbASF]

That is but one of the pages that uses or assumes PT.

For example:
https://inclusivenaming.org
https://inclusivenaming.org/participate/

Also used on mailing lists:
https://groups.google.com/g/inclusivenaming/c/wEclk6uyQWM (no TZ provided).

[edwarnicke]

Got it. I'm sort of looking at the space over which the problem is solvable. On other projects, I've used a bit of magic to cause the page to display in the local timezone of the viewer. We can do that for pages on the site. If the embedded google calendar is an issue, I'm not sure we have much control over that (though it could be investigated). Ed

…

On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 3:16 PM sebbASF ***@***.***> wrote: That is but one of the pages that uses or assumes PT. For example: https://inclusivenaming.org https://inclusivenaming.org/participate/ Also used on mailing lists: https://groups.google.com/g/inclusivenaming/c/wEclk6uyQWM (no TZ provided). — You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#77 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AALDI2E3P5PFHE4PBLMPGX3UB6UQFANCNFSM5DMUWZKQ> .