diff --git a/src/pages/ink-builder-program/echo-program.mdx b/src/pages/ink-builder-program/echo-program.mdx
index 232d01c..57dd221 100644
--- a/src/pages/ink-builder-program/echo-program.mdx
+++ b/src/pages/ink-builder-program/echo-program.mdx
@@ -1,70 +1,85 @@
-# Echo Program Track  
+# Echo Program
 
-Whether you shipped infra, launched a dApp, ran community calls, or quietly supported Ink’s growth during its early days, Echo exists to recognize those contributions, wherever and however they happened.
+*If you shipped a product, tool, or onchain integration on Ink in the early days, Echo exists to recognize that work.*
 
 ## What Is Echo?
 
-Echo is Ink’s retroactive builder track – a one-time initiative to recognize and reward the early contributors whose work helped shape the foundation of the Ink ecosystem.
+Echo is Ink's retroactive builder initiative, a one-time program to recognize and reward teams and projects that **shipped real product** on Ink during its early phase.
 
-Before there was Spark or Forge, there were builders who believed – experimenting, testing, and building in the dark so Ink could shine later. Echo exists to make sure those efforts are remembered, rewarded, and reconnected to what comes next.
+Echo exists to reward shipped contributions that helped form the ecosystem, and to reconnect those builders with what's coming next.
 
 ## Why We Created Echo
 
-Ecosystems aren’t born overnight. They emerge from countless unseen contributions across lines of code, design mockups, ideas, feedback, and belief.
+Ecosystems don't appear overnight, they're built through shipping.
 
 Echo was created to:
-- Recognize the builders, creators, and community members who gave Ink its first pulse. 
-- Celebrate meaningful early contributions that came before structured programs existed. 
-- Reconnect past contributors and invite them to shape Ink’s next era. 
 
-We’re here because of the work that came before. Echo ensures that past work continues to resonate.
+- Recognize early projects that **deployed and delivered** on Ink before formal programs existed
+- Reward contributions that created measurable ecosystem value (usage, transactions, adoption, integrations)
+- Reconnect proven early builders with Ink's next chapter
 
-## Who is Echo For? 
+Echo is about shipped work that moved the chain forward.
 
-Echo is for the people and projects that helped bring Ink to life.
+## Who It's For
 
-We’re recognizing those who:
-- Shipped products or tools on Ink before November 1st. 
-- Created real value for Ink’s community, users, or technical stack. 
-- Embodied Ink’s open, product-first builder ethos. 
+Echo is for **projects and teams** that shipped on Ink in its early stage.
 
-Whether you were a core developer, indie founder, ecosystem partner, or community catalyst, if your work left an imprint on Ink’s early growth, you’re part of this story.
+We're recognizing builders who:
+
+- Shipped a **live product, tool, or integration** on Ink before Nov 1st, 2025
+- Can provide verifiable proof of shipping (contracts, repos, releases, live links, metrics)
+- Created real value for Ink users or builders through product usage or ecosystem utility
+
+**Not in scope:** community-only contributions, advisory/support work, calls, moderation, marketing, or ideas/feedback without a shipped artifact.
 
 ## How It Works
 
-Echo is a one-time, limited-scope initiative designed for fairness, speed, and clarity.
+Echo is designed to be clear, fast, and verifiable.
+
+### 1. Submit
+
+Application form: https://forms.inkonchain.com/echo-builder-program
 
-1. **Submit**
+Share a short summary of what you shipped:
 
-Share a short summary of your past contribution including: 
-- What you built or did. 
-- When and how it happened. 
-- Proof of work (links, commits, screenshots, metrics, dev wallet, etc.)
+- What you built
+- When it launched on Ink
+- Proof of work (required):
+    - Contract addresses / explorer links
+    - GitHub repo / commits
+    - Live product link / screenshots
+    - Usage metrics (if available)
 
-2. **Review**
+### 2. Review
 
-Our review team, including Ink Foundation members and ecosystem advisors, will evaluate submissions based on impact, clarity, and authenticity.
+Ink Foundation reviewers (and ecosystem advisors when needed) evaluate submissions based on:
 
-3. **Reward & Reconnect**
+- **Shipping validity** (is it real and on Ink?)
+- **Impact** (usage, transactions, adoption, integrations, ecosystem utility)
+- **Authenticity** (credible proof, consistent story)
 
-Selected contributors receive a retroactive grant and a personal invitation to rejoin the builder network for upcoming initiatives.
+### 3. Reward
 
-## What You Receive 
+Approved projects receive a one-time retroactive grant, and an invitation to join the builder network for future initiatives.
 
-Grant sizes will vary based on contribution type and impact, but every recognized builder receives:
-- **Retroactive Grant**: Stablecoin award. 
-- **Recognition**: Public acknowledgment on INK socials.
-- **Reconnection**: Invitation to private builder syncs and early access to future programs. 
+## What You'll Get
+
+Grant size varies based on what was shipped and its impact. Recognized projects receive:
+
+- **Retroactive grant:** builder point or stablecoin award
+- **Recognition:** public acknowledgment (optional if a project prefers privacy)
+- **Reconnection:** invitation to private builder channels and early access to future initiatives
 
 ## How to Apply
-- **[Submit your Echo Application](https://tally.so/r/yPZk58)**: Make sure to include your contribution details and any supporting evidence.
-- **Wait for Review (1–2 weeks)**: We’ll batch-review submissions and contact you if clarification is needed.
-- **Receive Grant & Invitation**: If approved, you’ll receive your retroactive grant and access to Ink’s next builder chapter.
 
-[Apply to Echo here](https://tally.so/r/yPZk58)
+1. **Submit your Echo application** with proof of what you shipped on Ink
+2. **Review period (1–2 weeks):** submissions are batch-reviewed, clarification may be requested
+3. **Grant + follow-up:** approved projects receive grant instructions and builder network access
 
 ## Looking Ahead
 
-Ink is entering a new phase – built on the work, belief, and echoes of those who came before.
+Ink is entering a new phase, and Echo is how we recognize the builders who shipped early and helped set the foundation.
+
+We remember what you shipped.
 
-Echo is our way of saying: **We remember. We recognize. We’re building forward together.**
\ No newline at end of file
+Now let's build what comes next.
diff --git a/src/pages/ink-builder-program/forge-program.mdx b/src/pages/ink-builder-program/forge-program.mdx
index 306a24a..3ad1b17 100644
--- a/src/pages/ink-builder-program/forge-program.mdx
+++ b/src/pages/ink-builder-program/forge-program.mdx
@@ -1,116 +1,146 @@
-# Forge Program Track 
+# Forge Program
 
-The future isn’t written. It’s waiting to be inked.
+The future isn't written. It's waiting to be inked.
 
-## What is Forge? 
+## What is Forge?
 
-If Spark is where ideas begin, Forge is where builders scale.
+Forge is Ink's flagship track for teams ready to scale real traction into real impact. Forge provides milestone-based funding, advisory support, and access to the broader ecosystem for builders shipping dApps, infrastructure, and the tools that expand what's possible on Ink. In select cases, we may also back exceptional founders with a clear path to breakout impact.
 
-Forge is Ink’s flagship builder track designed for serious teams shipping real products that push the ecosystem forward.
+This is where traction turns into compounding growth.
 
-Whether you’re launching the next great dApp, building protocol infrastructure, or creating tools that make Ink easier to use, Forge backs you with meaningful funding, strategic guidance, and long-term support.
+## Why We Built Forge
 
-This is where prototypes become products.
+Every serious builder hits a moment where the idea is real, the product is live, and users are showing up. The next phase isn't "can we build it," it's can we scale it and make it last.
 
-## Why We Built Forge 
+Forge exists for that moment.
 
-Every builder hits that familiar turning point where the idea is real, the product works, and the path ahead is both exciting and uncertain.
+It's built for teams past the demo stage, ready to sharpen execution, expand distribution, and grow with intent, with Ink as the primary home.
 
-Forge exists for that moment. 
+We're selective so we can stay hands-on. If you're in Forge, you're not just getting funding, you're getting real support.
 
-It’s for founders ready to scale, teams turning experiments into ecosystems, and individuals transforming creative energy into structure.
+## Who Should Apply
 
-Forge is rooted in our conviction that:
-- Great products deserve committed backing and care. 
-- Builders thrive when they’re connected, guided, and empowered.
-- Ink evolves when its best ideas are built to endure. 
+Forge is a strong fit for teams with real momentum and a clear plan to scale on Ink.
 
-You bring the vision. We’ll help you forge it into reality.
+You'll likely be a match if you have:
 
-## Who is Forge For? 
+- A product that's live, or launching on mainnet imminently
+- Meaningful traction, with clear usage signals (users, volume, TVL, integrations, or growth)
+- A scoped 30–60 day plan with measurable outcomes
+- A team that can execute independently, with strong ownership
+- A credible plan to sustain delivery (runway, revenue strategy, or fundraising readiness)
+- A clear reason why Ink is the best home for your next stage
 
-Forge is for teams serious about scaling, refining, and delivering value to the Ink ecosystem.
+In select cases, we may back exceptional founders with a clear vision and strong alignment with Ink, especially if we see breakout potential and a credible path to execution and impact.
 
-#### Ideal Applicants
-- Production-stage offerings or operational MVPs. 
-- Defined roadmap with deliverables achievable in 30–60 days.
-- Strong and proven expertise in engineering or product delivery. 
-- Building for users, creators, or infrastructure within Ink.
-- Steadfast commitment to long-term growth and iteration. 
+If you're still exploring ideas or building your first MVP, **Spark** will be a better starting point.
 
-#### Common Verticals
-- Developer tools and infrastructure. 
-- DeFi and liquidity protocols.
-- Consumer and social apps.
-- Governance, coordination, or networking services.
-- Public goods and open-source infrastructure.
+## What You Receive
+
+Forge is more than a grant. It's a scaling layer around your team.
+
+**Support includes:**
+
+- Milestone-based grants up to 200,000 USDC
+- Strategic mentorship from Ink contributors and advisors
+- Ink-native integrations and dev tooling support
+- Official ecosystem spotlight and social amplification
+- Warm intros to partners, collaborators, and investors
+- Eligibility for follow-on investment via Kraken Ventures
+
+## What We're Looking For
+
+We select projects based on traction, product strength, execution maturity, ecosystem impact, and long-term durability.
+
+### 1) Traction
+
+We look for strong signals that real users want what you've built, such as:
+
+- Active users or repeat usage
+- Onchain transactions or volume
+- TVL or assets under management
+- Protocol/tooling integrations
+- Sustained growth tied to product activity
+
+We may also selectively support standout founders (e.g., viral project creators or exceptional alumni from top builder ecosystems) if we believe they can rapidly scale into high-impact Ink-native products.
+
+### 2) Ecosystem Impact
+
+We prioritize projects that materially push Ink forward through:
 
-## How It Works
+- Liquidity, volume, or capital efficiency
+- User adoption and retention
+- Infrastructure other teams depend on
+- Developer tooling leverage or ecosystem distribution
 
-**1. Preliminary Evaluation**
+### 3) Execution Readiness
 
-We assess:
-- **Ecosystem Alignment**: Does it unlock new use cases for Ink?
-- **Clarity of Vision**: Is the roadmap coherent and compelling?
-- **Technical Readiness**: Can it ship meaningful updates in 30–60 days?
-- **Team Strength**: Can the team execute independently?
+Forge is designed for teams that can ship reliably, operate independently, and build to last.
 
-**2. Final Plan & Grant Confirmation**
+We'll look for:
 
-Promising teams are invited to a follow-up for:
-- Grant size and milestone confirmation. 
-- Roadmap validation. 
-- Technical or strategic support planning. 
+- Strong product/engineering track record
+- Clear ownership and decision-making
+- Ability to deliver without heavy incubation
+- Financial readiness: a credible runway plan, and the ability to secure ongoing resources (revenue or fundraising) as the market evolves
 
-This may include async review or Q&A with Ink core contributors and advisors.
+> Strong signals include prior fundraising experience, warm investor relationships, or a clear path to extending runway as the market evolves.
 
-**3. Minimum Requirements**
-- Live MVP or demo-ready build (on or ready for Ink mainnet).
-- Team capable of autonomous execution
-- Clear milestones and realistic timelines
-- Willingness to collaborate with Ink ecosystem teams
+### 4) Milestone Clarity
 
-This may include async review or Q&A with Ink core contributors and advisors.
+Forge grants are milestone-based, so your roadmap matters.
+
+We look for:
+
+- A 30–60 day plan
+- Deliverables tied to outcomes (usage, adoption, integrations, liquidity)
+- A realistic scope and timeline
 
 ## What You Can Build
 
-We’re open to anything that brings utility, usability, or culture to Ink – from core protocols to creative experiments.
+Forge supports projects that make Ink more powerful, useful, and scalable.
 
-Examples:
-- DeFi protocols & liquidity infrastructure.
-- Wallets, onboarding UX, or account abstraction.
-- SDKs, APIs, and developer tools. 
-- Consumer & social primitives. 
-- Onchain games & creative apps.
-- Governance tools & public goods.
+Common categories include:
 
-If it strengthens Ink, we want to support you.
+- DeFi protocols & liquidity infrastructure
+- Developer tooling, infra, SDKs, APIs
+- Wallet UX, onboarding improvements, account abstraction
+- Consumer + social apps
+- Games, prediction markets, coordination networks
+- Public goods + open-source primitives
 
-## What You Receive
+If it materially improves Ink's ecosystem, it belongs here.
+
+## How the Forge Review Works
+
+**Step 1: Apply (Biweekly Review)**
+
+Apply anytime. The Ink Foundation team reviews applications in **biweekly batches**.
+
+You can expect a feedback email within **~14 days** of submitting a complete application.
+
+**Step 2: Interview + Deep Review**
+
+If shortlisted, we'll invite your team to an interview to validate fit and readiness across:
+
+- Product and traction
+- Team structure and execution ability
+- Ecosystem alignment
+- Long-term goals
+
+**Step 3: Milestone Planning + Grant Approval**
 
-Forge offers you more than funding. It provides structure, connections, and a launchpad for scaling. 
+If you pass the interview round, we'll work together to finalize:
 
-Support Includes:
-- Milestone-based grants up to 200,000 USDC.
-- Advisory support from Ink contributors and ecosystem mentors.
-- Technical integration with Ink infrastructure and tooling.
-- Exposure through Ink’s official channels and partner networks.
-- Warm intros to investors, partners, and ecosystem collaborators.
-- Potential follow-on investment via Kraken Ventures.
+- Grant size and milestone structure
+- Roadmap checkpoints and success metrics
+- Integration needs and ecosystem support
+- Co-marketing opportunities (when relevant)
 
-## What We Prioritize 
+Once milestones are agreed, we issue final approval and funding is released in stages based on delivery.
 
-We evaluate projects based on:
-- **Clarity**: What you’re building and why it matters.
-- **Credibility**: Can your team deliver?
-- **Ecosystem Fit**: Does it expand Ink’s value?
-- **Scalability**: Can it grow into a core Ink-native experience?
-- **Roadmap**: Is there a clear, achievable plan?
+## Apply to Forge
 
-## How to Join Forge
-- **[Submit your project](https://tally.so/r/RGKQeK) →** Detail your prototype, squad, and strategy.
-- **Connect with evaluators →** Shortlisted teams refine checkpoints and resources.
-- **Lock it in →** Approved teams receive grant and support access.
-- **Build and scale →** Ship fast, grow smart, and become a pillar of the Ink ecosystem.
+Ready to scale something real on Ink?
 
-Ready to build and scale something real? [Apply to Forge](https://tally.so/r/RGKQeK).
\ No newline at end of file
+**Apply here:** https://forms.inkonchain.com/forge-builder-program
diff --git a/src/pages/ink-builder-program/overview.mdx b/src/pages/ink-builder-program/overview.mdx
index 2467396..e02b3a7 100644
--- a/src/pages/ink-builder-program/overview.mdx
+++ b/src/pages/ink-builder-program/overview.mdx
@@ -1,10 +1,9 @@
 # Ink Builder Program
 
-The Ink Builder Program comprises three tracks to support ecosystem development through targeted funding, guidance, and recognition.
+The Ink Builder Program supports teams building on Ink with funding, guidance, and recognition across three tracks.
 
-- **Spark**: Entry-level track for individual builders and prototypes. Targets onchain experiments (e.g., tools, games). Provides 500 – 5,000 USDC microgrants, rapid reviews, and promotion; no pitches required.
-- **Forge**: Advanced track for teams with MVPs. Focuses on dApps, DeFi, and infrastructure. Offers up to 200,000 USDC in milestone grants, advisory, integrations, and investor connections.
-- **Echo**: One-time retroactive track for pre-launch contributors (before November 1st). Rewards code, tools, or community efforts with grants, acknowledgment, and program access.
+**Spark:** Microgrants for builders shipping tangible progress. Spark backs small, high-signal projects like tools, bots, mini dApps, and experiments that can deliver measurable value on Ink. It is also a path for teams that are promising but not yet at Forge's traction bar to prove impact and level up. Grants range from 500–5,000 USDC, with a lightweight application and fast review.
 
-The builder tracks enable progression from ideation to scale while honoring Ink’s origins. 
-Applications are open to all eligible builders.
+**Forge:** Our flagship track for teams scaling real products. Forge is built for projects with **live traction** and a clear plan to grow on Ink. Support includes **milestone-based grants up to 200,000 USDC**, hands-on ecosystem support, and exposure through Ink's channels. In select cases, we may back exceptional founders who are strongly aligned with Ink and have a credible path to breakout impact, but traction remains the primary bar.
+
+**Echo:** A one-time retroactive track to recognize early projects that shipped on Ink **before November 1, 2025**. Echo rewards verifiable, shipped contributions with a one-time grant and public recognition.
diff --git a/src/pages/ink-builder-program/spark-program.mdx b/src/pages/ink-builder-program/spark-program.mdx
index 1d0d835..dddbc0f 100644
--- a/src/pages/ink-builder-program/spark-program.mdx
+++ b/src/pages/ink-builder-program/spark-program.mdx
@@ -1,81 +1,126 @@
-import { Callout } from "nextra/components";
-
-# Spark Program Track 
+# Spark Program
 
 *Every big idea starts with a spark.*
 
-## What is Spark? 
+## What Is Spark?
 
-Spark is Ink’s lightweight builder track for experimentation, side projects, and indie hackers testing ideas onchain.
+Spark is Ink's microgrant track for builders shipping small, high-signal work that creates measurable value for the ecosystem.
 
-Whether you’re shipping a tool, exploring a UX concept, or building memes with code, Spark gives you just enough support to get started. No pitch decks. No bureaucracy. Just your idea and a place in the Ink ecosystem.
+It's built for tools, bots, mini dApps, public goods, and experimental products that can prove real usage, unlock onchain activity, or make building on Ink easier. Spark is also the right lane for promising teams that are not yet at Forge's traction bar, but can prove impact with a smaller push.
 
-This is where new ideas get their first “**yes**.”
+No pitch decks. Low lift application. Fast decisions.
 
-## Why We Built Spark
+This is where projects earn their first traction on Ink.
 
-Thriving ecosystems transcend grants funding. They flourish through the ingenuity of the curious, chaotic, and creative.  
+## Why We Built Spark
 
-The ones who tinker first and think later. The ones who just want to see what happens.
+Healthy ecosystems are built by a lot of small, useful things that compound.
 
 Spark exists to:
-- Reduce entry hurdles for emerging creators. 
-- Capture those initial bursts of innovation. 
-- Foster an Ink environment that’s welcoming and inclusive. 
 
-You don’t need a 50-page roadmap to matter—just a working idea and the will to ship.
+- Reduce friction for builders who are ready to ship, not just talk
+- Buy velocity for projects that can quickly produce proof (usage, integrations, onchain activity)
+- Seed high-potential teams that need a smaller milestone to qualify for deeper support later
+- Encourage ecosystem primitives and public goods that increase builder throughput
+
+Spark is not "fund anything." It is "fund what can ship value and show signal."
 
-Big things often have small beginnings, and even the most modest of experiments can grow into the next core primitive. Spark fuels that transformation. 
+## Who Should Apply
 
-## Who is Spark for? 
+Spark is a strong fit if you are:
 
-- Indie hackers, first-time builders, and creative experimenters. 
-- Projects with small tools, minimum viable products (MVPs), or early-stage prototypes.  
-- Builders without a token or team – just code and curiosity. 
+- An indie builder or small team shipping a real product or feature
+- A team building something useful for other builders or users on Ink
+- A project that can show a credible plan for measurable impact, even if early
+- A team that may have aimed for Forge but needs to prove traction first
 
-## What Can You Build?
+Spark is not a fit for deck-first ideas, marketing-only teams, or projects that cannot define what value they create for Ink and how it will be measured.
 
-- Developer tools and smart contract experiments.
-- Onchain games, bots, or meme apps. 
-- Creator or community tools artists or group engagement. 
-- Prototypes of public resources. 
-- Anything that makes Ink more fun, usable, or composable. 
+## What You Can Build
+
+Spark supports lightweight projects that increase usage, liquidity, or builder leverage, including:
+
+- Developer tools, SDKs, contract tooling, deployment helpers
+- Bots and mini apps that drive repeat onchain actions
+- Onchain UX improvements, onboarding helpers, account abstraction components
+- Analytics dashboards that help users act (not just view), especially if linked to conversion
+- Public goods and open-source primitives other teams can reuse
+- Consumer experiments with clear retention loops and measurable usage
 
 ## How It Works
 
-### Submission Process
+### 1) Submit
+
+Builders share a short application with:
 
-Fill out a lightweight form. No pitch deck required.
+- What they're building and why it matters for Ink
+- Proof of build (demo, repo, screenshots, Loom, contracts, etc.)
+- What they want to ship or improve with a $500–$5K microgrant
+- Any traction signals (even small) and distribution plan (if relevant)
 
-Include:
-- Project name with a concise description. 
-- Prototype access (e.g., GitHub repo, Notion doc, hosted demo, etc). 
-- What type of support you’re looking for (funding, exposure, feedback).
+### 2) Review (Scorecard-Based)
 
-<Callout type="info">
-Rolling evaluations and reviews on an ongoing basis, with responses typically arriving in ~1 week.
-</Callout>
+We evaluate every submission on five criteria:
+
+- **Proof of Build**
+    
+    Has real work already started, code/UI/prototype/demo, visible effort.
+    
+- **Ecosystem Usefulness**
+    
+    Does it make Ink more usable, more visible, or more fun, and does it help users or other builders.
+    
+- **Feasibility for Microgrant**
+    
+    Can $500–$5K meaningfully move it forward, with a clear and realistic scope.
+    
+- **Builder Credibility**
+    
+    Can the builder ship, communicate clearly, and respond reliably.
+    
+- **Creative + Value Spark**
+    
+    Is it novel, memeable, surprising, or culturally sticky, while still creating real value.
+
+### 3) Decision + Grant
+
+Outcomes:
+
+- **Approved** (grant size confirmed)
+- **Revise & resubmit** (scope or proof needs tightening)
+- **Not a fit** (doesn't match Spark goals)
 
 ## What You Receive
 
-#### Microgrants
+### Microgrants
+
+- **500–5,000 USDC** per project
+- Non-dilutive, simple terms
+- Typically paid after approval and confirmation of a working build/demo (timing depends on program operations and compliance)
+
+### Visibility and Ecosystem Support
+
+Standout Spark projects may receive:
 
-- 500 – 5,000 USDC per project. 
-- Flat grants (no milestone tracking).
-- Paid upon approval or after demo submission. 
+- Social amplification and ecosystem highlights
+- Introductions to relevant ecosystem teams and partners
+- A clear path to "level up" into deeper support when traction is proven
 
-#### Ecosystem Spotlight
+## Spark Success Looks Like
 
-Standout Spark projects will be showcased across:
+Within the next phase, the project delivers:
 
-- Ink’s X account, newsletter updates, and Ink website. 
-- Community dashboards or highlights. 
-- Pathway to advance into the next track, Inkubator Core, if your project gains traction and momentum builds. 
+- A live deployment or usable feature on Ink
+- A measurable impact signal, such as:
+    - real users or repeat usage
+    - meaningful onchain activity (transactions, volume)
+    - adoption by other builders (integrations, reuse, tooling usage)
+    - clear improvements to conversion or usability
 
-## How to Join Spark 
+If a project cannot explain the value it creates for Ink and how that value will be measured, it is not a fit.
 
-- Submit your idea → [Spark Application Form](https://tally.so/r/RGKQjp)
-- Undergo assessment → Our reviewers convene weekly for prompt feedback. 
-- Build fast → Approval unlocks your microgrant → no strings attached, just ship.
+## How To Join Spark
 
-Start small. Ship fast. Every great project begins with a Spark.
\ No newline at end of file
+- Submit your project → [Spark Application Form](https://forms.inkonchain.com/spark-builder-program)
+- Get reviewed → The team reviews applications in batches and follows up with results
+- Ship and prove → Spark is designed to reward builders who deliver measurable value, not just announcements