Add some comments as a review. #1

mariha · 2022-09-08T19:06:25Z

Take or ignore whatever you think is worth it.

~~I'll move the comments inlined in the files to GH comments in a moment...~~

mariha · 2022-09-08T20:15:11Z

(I couldn't add comments in GH review to the lines without changes... so I left them inlined. Internally it's probably just a git patch with a diff)

mrkvon

@mariha Thank you for the detailed & thoughtful comments and suggestions!

I haven't finished the review fully.

For starters, what do you think @mariha if i separately merge the parts which are related (typos & formatting, TOC, OHN intro, content changes & change in meaning)? It could help simplify further discussion to points that may require more discussion.

Also, for the points that i may not like for any reason, it may work great to fork/copy this to OHN, and show the changes there.

WDYT? :)

mrkvon · 2022-09-09T12:57:19Z

README.md

 In a series of articles we document how we build a distributed hospitality exchange over [Solid](https://solidproject.org).

-[Start here](intro.md)
+[comment]: <> (Who are we? Would be nice to write that it was you together with OHN project/team or you as part of it)


Definitely!

README.md

mrkvon · 2022-09-09T13:05:43Z

group-community.md

+### 1. Crawl a network of friends of a friends

-Well, people can look at their friends, and friends of friends, and friends of friends of friends, and so on, and see if somebody offers a place to stay; and where it is.
+Well, people can ask (look at the profile of) their friends, and friends of friends, and friends of friends of friends, and so on, and see if somebody offers a place to stay; and where it is.


people can look at the profile of their friends or people can look at the data of their friends sounds good to me. To me ask represents act of asking them, and getting answers, which they don't do.

I thought it would be nice to make it a bit more general in a way that in real/physical/offline world people would ask their friends and this is what the program "models" but I don't insist.

mrkvon · 2022-09-09T13:23:12Z

group-community.md

+- Offers have to be public. Currently, Solid doesn't have any mechanism to give permissions to friends of friends of friends of friends, and nobody else. (We could make a crawler that for each user collects these "foafoafoafs" to a single group, traversing the graph to certain depth, and give permissions to that group (or rather request members of that group to give permission to read their data).)
+- We don't have any notion of a Community (e.g. cyclists, hitchhikers, ...) - like [different](https://welcometomygarden.org/) [hospex](https://www.bewelcome.org/) [communities](https://www.facebook.com/groups/hostasister/), or different [Trustroots Circles](https://www.trustroots.org/circles) (could be done with "tags" stored in a profile)
+- Search by location would require prior fetch and scan of a whole network of foafoafoafs, that would take waaaaaaay to long to be usable (scalability and app responsiveness issues) unless we cache that data locally but then it can get stale, needs refreshments, ... gets a bit complicated. A cache could be structured as a geospecial index though, specifically created for each user from their own network. That might be not that bad idea, actually.
+- There is no common space to broadcast messages (invitations to stay or requests to be hosted), unless we had a wall of messages from foafoafoafs, stored locally and refreshed similarly as messages in SSB?


I think this already assumes an architecture: That we don't send messages to others directly, but put them on a wall for others to discover?
Or is this about messages that are public by their nature? Like request for an area (not a person)?

I think this, also with comparing to SSB, makes it a bit complicated. I'd keep it for future reference, but prefer not to include for now, for simplicity and clarity.

Definitely makes sense to include when we'll start discussing messaging architecture (future)

mrkvon · 2022-09-09T13:35:05Z

group-community.md

 1. Everybody in the internet can see the list of hospitality exchange members
 2. Group is private, but the people's hospex data are public. ([this doesn't work if the group is hosted on CSS](https://github.com/CommunitySolidServer/CommunitySolidServer/issues/1442))

+[comment]: <> (What if we had a functional webId for each hospex community, and we created a public Solid Group that included them and authorized only members of this group to see people's hospex data? Each community would have a separate app/webpage, with their own webId. Only app would be authorized to access hospex data of members of the community it serves. The members directly or other apps/communities would not be authorized to read that data.


Interesting, let's discuss this further!

I don't fully grasp: so all the hospex data would get proxied through the community? E.g. community would fetch the data (because it has the permission to read) and then it would pass the data further to the end user?

I like a lot the idea that an organization could have its own id. Possibly https://id.sleepy.bike ... :) There was a piece about webIds at the July (2022) Solid World... (the whole talk of that presenter starts at 38m24s)

How we could and wanted to use this id, that's for further discussion - i haven't properly thought through the possibilities....

I don't fully grasp: so all the hospex data would get proxied through the community? E.g. community would fetch the data (because it has the permission to read) and then it would pass the data further to the end user?

yup, exactly. Basically, we'd add a layer of indirection into who is authorized to access the data. A user would not access it directly but rather the app would do it for them. This gives also more flexibility to what the app does with the data, could for example display a map with hosts before a person is logged in.

I'll try to watch the video tomorrow morning.

group-test.md

intro.md

mrkvon · 2022-09-09T13:40:19Z

intro.md

 I don't care for the inception ideas. I don't care for authority in Solid. I don't care for your new Specification. I want it to work.

+[comment]: <> (I don't care for your new Specification)
+[comment]: <> (it's unclear to me who is "your" here. Maybe adding a link under "Specialization" will help, or changing "your" to somthing more specific?)


Ok. So apparently this is not written clearly.

I speak about Specs (i.e. RFCs) that academic-minded people like to produce, before having the proof of concept.

Example of spec-focused vs lets-make-it-work-focused spec is XML vs JSON as data exchange format (not in our context, though), or as Aaron Swartz wrote in Intro to Programmable web:

With them has come academic research and government grants and corporate R&D and the whole apparatus of people and institutions that scream “pipedream.” And instead of spending time building things, they’ve convinced people interested in these ideas that the ﬁrst thing we need to do is write standards. (To engineers, this is absurd from the start—standards are things you write after you’ve got something working, not before!)

Perhaps we could add link to the efforts of solid interoperability panel... :) Not sure if it's offensive to point fingers, though...

Ah, yea. I like to say that for me standards should emerge from many tested solutions to a problem as the ones that get used and adapted most often and hence they become standard(s), rather than something being enforced as a standard. Clearly top-down vs bottom-up approach to problem solving.

Perhaps we could add link to the efforts of solid interoperability panel... :) Not sure if it's offensive to point fingers, though...

I think you could add a link.

mrkvon · 2022-09-09T13:43:59Z

intro.md


 One well explored, and popular use case is Hospitality Exchange. It's pretty clear what the system should do.

+[comment]: <> (would be great if you mentioned somewhere here, here-here or elswhere on this page, how your collaboration with me or/and OHN started, what OHN is about and how it fits together with Your agenda. Maybe also a few words about sleepy.bike, who is it for and where it comes from? I'll be happy to discuss or draft parts of this if it was helpful.)


Great. Definitely, let's include.

If you have some text, or could draft some, that could be helpful. We could even make a shorter comment here and link it to a longer text with its own separate page. :)

mariha

Thanks for the answers!

In general, anything you think will make the process of applying changes easier works great to me. I am sorry for making the comments in files instead of GH review but there were too many places where I wanted to comment something without making a change.

I am working a bit in between girls' interruptions so may be more chaotic than I wish to be at a times, hope it won't get too annoying for you.

README.md

mariha · 2022-09-10T20:23:01Z

group-community.md

+### 1. Crawl a network of friends of a friends

-Well, people can look at their friends, and friends of friends, and friends of friends of friends, and so on, and see if somebody offers a place to stay; and where it is.
+Well, people can ask (look at the profile of) their friends, and friends of friends, and friends of friends of friends, and so on, and see if somebody offers a place to stay; and where it is.


I thought it would be nice to make it a bit more general in a way that in real/physical/offline world people would ask their friends and this is what the program "models" but I don't insist.

mariha · 2022-09-10T20:49:22Z

group-community.md

 1. Everybody in the internet can see the list of hospitality exchange members
 2. Group is private, but the people's hospex data are public. ([this doesn't work if the group is hosted on CSS](https://github.com/CommunitySolidServer/CommunitySolidServer/issues/1442))

+[comment]: <> (What if we had a functional webId for each hospex community, and we created a public Solid Group that included them and authorized only members of this group to see people's hospex data? Each community would have a separate app/webpage, with their own webId. Only app would be authorized to access hospex data of members of the community it serves. The members directly or other apps/communities would not be authorized to read that data.


I don't fully grasp: so all the hospex data would get proxied through the community? E.g. community would fetch the data (because it has the permission to read) and then it would pass the data further to the end user?

yup, exactly. Basically, we'd add a layer of indirection into who is authorized to access the data. A user would not access it directly but rather the app would do it for them. This gives also more flexibility to what the app does with the data, could for example display a map with hosts before a person is logged in.

I'll try to watch the video tomorrow morning.

mariha · 2022-09-10T21:03:25Z

intro.md

 I don't care for the inception ideas. I don't care for authority in Solid. I don't care for your new Specification. I want it to work.

+[comment]: <> (I don't care for your new Specification)
+[comment]: <> (it's unclear to me who is "your" here. Maybe adding a link under "Specialization" will help, or changing "your" to somthing more specific?)


Ah, yea. I like to say that for me standards should emerge from many tested solutions to a problem as the ones that get used and adapted most often and hence they become standard(s), rather than something being enforced as a standard. Clearly top-down vs bottom-up approach to problem solving.

Perhaps we could add link to the efforts of solid interoperability panel... :) Not sure if it's offensive to point fingers, though...

I think you could add a link.

…orth it.

They were added as comments to a GH review instead.

This reverts commit 472ae11.

mrkvon · 2022-09-12T22:21:09Z

added further changes in 5f6aaf0 and removed them from here

#1 Co-authored-by: mrkvon <mrkvon@protonmail.com>

mrkvon · 2022-09-14T13:55:47Z

Finally, we've added content changes based on this review in ac6e2fb
There, i took liberty to edit. Also added new content based on comments. I also omitted some remaining proposals. e.g. for the sake of simplicity or clarity. It would be worth catching the remaining ideas elsewhere, so we don't lose them.

#1 Co-authored-by: mrkvon <mrkvon@protonmail.com>

mariha marked this pull request as ready for review September 8, 2022 20:15

mrkvon reviewed Sep 9, 2022

View reviewed changes

mrkvon force-pushed the main branch from 7d7bf42 to 21af19d Compare September 9, 2022 21:06

mariha commented Sep 10, 2022

View reviewed changes

mrkvon force-pushed the comments branch from 14471b0 to e101b48 Compare September 12, 2022 21:19

mrkvon force-pushed the main branch from a0e413f to b8ae750 Compare September 12, 2022 21:34

mrkvon force-pushed the comments branch from e101b48 to a61c60d Compare September 12, 2022 21:35

Mariha Kozinska added 3 commits September 13, 2022 01:19

Add some comments as a review. Take or ignore whatever you think is w…

9a711c9

…orth it.

Remove review comments from the code.

ccc6ac3

They were added as comments to a GH review instead.

Revert "Remove review comments from the code."

e64dc06

This reverts commit 472ae11.

mrkvon force-pushed the comments branch from a61c60d to e64dc06 Compare September 12, 2022 22:20

mrkvon added a commit that referenced this pull request Sep 14, 2022

Add review content, add content based on review comments

b0ff0ef

#1 Co-authored-by: mrkvon <mrkvon@protonmail.com>

mrkvon added a commit that referenced this pull request Sep 14, 2022

Add review content, add content based on review comments

ac6e2fb

#1 Co-authored-by: mrkvon <mrkvon@protonmail.com>

mrkvon force-pushed the main branch 6 times, most recently from c0a1981 to e25c2af Compare September 18, 2022 22:21


		One well explored, and popular use case is Hospitality Exchange. It's pretty clear what the system should do.

		[comment]: <> (would be great if you mentioned somewhere here, here-here or elswhere on this page, how your collaboration with me or/and OHN started, what OHN is about and how it fits together with Your agenda. Maybe also a few words about sleepy.bike, who is it for and where it comes from? I'll be happy to discuss or draft parts of this if it was helpful.)

Add some comments as a review. #1

Are you sure you want to change the base?

Add some comments as a review. #1

Uh oh!

Conversation

mariha commented Sep 8, 2022 • edited Loading Uh oh! There was an error while loading. Please reload this page.

Uh oh!

Uh oh!

mariha commented Sep 8, 2022

Uh oh!

mrkvon left a comment • edited Loading Uh oh! There was an error while loading. Please reload this page.

Uh oh!

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Uh oh!

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Uh oh!

Uh oh!

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Uh oh!

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Uh oh!

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Uh oh!

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Uh oh!

mrkvon Sep 9, 2022 • edited Loading Uh oh! There was an error while loading. Please reload this page.

Uh oh!

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Uh oh!

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Uh oh!

Uh oh!

Uh oh!

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Uh oh!

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Uh oh!

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Uh oh!

mariha left a comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Uh oh!

Uh oh!

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Uh oh!

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Uh oh!

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Uh oh!

mrkvon commented Sep 12, 2022

Uh oh!

mrkvon commented Sep 14, 2022 • edited Loading Uh oh! There was an error while loading. Please reload this page.

Uh oh!

Uh oh!

Reviewers

Assignees

Labels

Projects

Milestone

Development

Uh oh!

3 participants

mariha commented Sep 8, 2022 •

edited

Loading

mrkvon left a comment •

edited

Loading

mrkvon Sep 9, 2022 •

edited

Loading

mrkvon commented Sep 14, 2022 •

edited

Loading